(Unedited) Podcast Transcript 513: Indianapolis’ Blossoming BRT Network
December 19, 2024
This week on Talking Headways we’re joined by Austin Gibble, currently of Stantec but formerly of the City of Indianapolis and IndyGo. We chat about the history of planning for BRT in Indy, the Cultural Trail bike network, transit and infrastructure costs, and the interpersonal relationships that can make or break projects.
Listen to this episode at Streetsblog USA or find it in the hosting archive.
Below is a full unedited transcript from the episode:
Jeff Wood: Austin Gibble, welcome to the Talking Headways podcast. Thank you for having me, Jeff. It’s really good to be here. I’m excited. Yeah, it’s so good to have you here. I feel like I’ve wanted to have you on for a while, so this is a good venue.
[00:03:20] We’re at Impact in Philadelphia. How do you feel about the city so far? [00:03:24] Austin Gibble: Great. I’ve never been to Philadelphia before, so this has been a really enjoyable experience. I haven’t been able to venture out too much just because I’ve been busy with conference things, but so far Philly’s been a fascinating city and I’m going to have to come back. [00:03:36] When I’m not working and actually have time to explore the city [00:03:41] Jeff Wood: a little bit. I feel like that happens a lot with conferences where you’re like, I wish I had a little bit more time to explore. Thanks for being here before we get started on everything else. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself? [00:03:50] Austin Gibble: Sure. My name is Austin Gible. I am a transit planner and project manager for a consulting company called Stantec based out of Edmonton, Alberta. However, I live and work in Indianapolis, Indiana. Prior to my role at Stantec, I was the transportation planning administrator for the city of Indianapolis for several years, and I had my hands in many pots working on electric vehicle planning, special projects management, long range planning management, and how that translates in the capital projects. [00:04:17] Policy development grant writing. And then before that, I was a project manager for Indigo, the transit authority in Marion County in Indianapolis, working on various capital projects like our three bus, rapid transit corridors, and a scaled emulation of a Chicago’s loop link in downtown Indianapolis that we called super stops. [00:04:37] But overall, my focus at Stan tech today is largely on bus, rapid transit, mobility ecosystems, and policy development, and figuring out what transit looks like. Going into the future because we are in a rapidly evolving environment when it comes to mobility and developing a system where it is just as easy to take micro transit or micro mobility or fixed route transit, making that as easy as picking up the keys is imperative, but it’s an incredible challenge. [00:05:07] And that’s something that myself and stand tech work on through our transit and rail groups and through our smarter mobility teams. [00:05:14] Jeff Wood: So let’s go back in time. Did you always know that you wanted to be a transportation planner? Did this start off when you were a little kid or is this something that you evolved into? [00:05:22] It’s [00:05:22] Austin Gibble: something I evolved into. I did, when I was a kid, I had that affinity for trains that all kids do, but I just, I never grew out of mine. Continued to be a real fan. I enjoyed trains quite a bit, but I actually grew up focused on agriculture. In my youth, I grew up in rural Indiana. My grandparents had a farm that I worked on for many years and spent a lot of time there, a 10 year 4H or FFA. [00:05:45] But that’s actually where my desire to become an urban planner started. So I grew up just outside of a town called Greenfield, Indiana, which is east of Indianapolis. And over the years, as I grew up, I started to see some of the sprawl development, mostly pre 2008. And this land became Gobbled up for housing that didn’t look great or like it wasn’t gonna age. [00:06:07] The streets were disconnected. And even as a kid, I thought this is, this is gobbling up ag land. This is gobbling up forest lands and it’s ugly. So how does this happen? And what is the solution to that? And that noodled in my head for a long time. And I honestly went into business school when I was an undergrad and I struggled and I couldn’t really find my niche. [00:06:25] And finally, my academic advisor said why don’t you try this planning 100 course based on what you’re telling me your interests are. You might fit in well here. And I immediately fell in love. And that’s how things got started. I got a minor degree in urban planning from Ball State University and a master’s degree from the University of South Florida. [00:06:42] How was that Florida experience? Oh, it was interesting. Florida is an incredibly politically interesting and dynamic state. I live primarily within Tampa Bay, which itself is it’s In Florida, Tampa is my second home a little bit. I made many friends there and the community there is so passionate and so dedicated and no matter how many times they get knocked down, they just keep fighting. [00:07:08] So Tampa is a fascinating place. And I think it, It gets a lot of flack for their challenges in roadway safety, but they’ve also made a lot of advancements in mobility and roadway design within the state of Florida. And as much as people tend to not think this way, the Florida Department of Transportation is really quite a forward thinking organization and is constantly leveraging other research institutes like the Center for Urban Transportation Research, where I worked to constantly improve their mobility network. [00:07:35] Jeff Wood: Yeah, you were talking about dangerous roads. That’s one of the things that people talk about a lot about that region and Sarasota and Tampa is a lot of the dangerous roads that we see on those maps on Twitter, where the pedestrian deaths and stuff are, it happens to be on some of those state roads. [00:07:46] And so it’s interesting to hear you talk about some of the new thinking around safety. Absolutely. [00:07:51] Austin Gibble: And while I haven’t been in quite some time, I still have friends down there who update me on what’s going on in Tampa Bay and send me, before and after pictures of places that we used to hang out. [00:08:00] And I’m like, what a transformation, even just in a few years. It’s really incredible. So I can’t help but applaud Tampa and St. Petersburg for the advancements that they’ve made in a short period of time. [00:08:12] Jeff Wood: And so then you head up back to Indianapolis after school. What happens next? [00:08:15] Austin Gibble: Yeah, at that point I moved back to Indianapolis. [00:08:18] I was offered a job as the project development planner, project manager for Indigo. And at that time, Indianapolis had just passed a transit referendum and they were staffing up and gearing up to develop a really comprehensive bus, rapid transit network, and a frequent grid of local buses, as well as other critical Supporting infrastructure improvements. [00:08:37] So I was brought on board as the red line was finishing up design was on board through the opening of that and get to help do that. And then I was the environmental manager for the purple line, which just opened last week. Congratulations. Thank you. And then the third line, the blue line is anticipated. [00:08:52] To start construction early next year while I no longer work for Indigo. I’m obviously a big fan of Indigo and I’m always rooting for them. I’m also a little bit biased because my house is right on the blue line. And so it’s certainly the one I’m most excited for. [00:09:06] Jeff Wood: Yeah. It’s funny as planners. [00:09:08] Transportation planners and planners in general, I feel like a lot of times you work really hard for a number of years on projects, and it’s always good to see something that you started come to fruition, like start to finish. It’s something that some planners never really get to see because it’s this iteration over time. [00:09:21] And so to see the construction is finished and it’s opening, that must be awesome. [00:09:25] Austin Gibble: It’s a good feeling. It’s nice. And especially when people using it. And how they interact with the space. It’s really nice. Purple Line is probably the most dramatic transformation. It was on a roadway that was developed prior to the unification of Indianapolis and Marion County. [00:09:43] And did not have a lot of development standards. There were no sidewalks. There weren’t really any drainage structures. It was mostly ditches. And these are in some of our second ring suburbs that were developed in the 50s, 60s, 70s. And over time, as major industries left the East side of Indianapolis, they started to experience greater and greater rates of suburbanized poverty. [00:10:06] And so that lack of supporting infrastructure for pedestrians and cyclists and transit riders, it made 38th Street where the Purple Line runs one of the city’s most dangerous streets. And the Purple Line has introduced Stormwater sewer separation, new drainage structures, 10 miles of new sidewalks and bike paths. [00:10:23] It’s really been impressive. And I have to really praise Indigo in the city of Indianapolis for what they’ve been doing. [00:10:29] Jeff Wood: It’s interesting. You mentioned all those improvements. Did all those get put onto the transit bill? Like when you, you tout the total cost in the end, that’s this BRT project costs this much money, but your sewer systems, your road reconstruction, all that stuff. Does it all get put in the same bill or is it separated out a little bit? [00:10:43] Austin Gibble: It’s separated out a little bit from what [00:10:44] Jeff Wood: I can remember. [00:10:45] Austin Gibble: I believe the water utility did contribute toward the stormwater sewer separation since it was a partial benefit to them, but it was a good opportunity to leverage transit and make investments that have been long needed in other supportive infrastructure. [00:11:00] And I know that’s like a conversation throughout the transit space. Is this an appropriate use of transit dollars? And I’ve certainly seen arguments to both sides that are very compelling, but it’s a little bit hard to manage, it’s interesting. Yeah. So I personally, I don’t think I really have a strong opinion either way, but I certainly see arguments for including and not including these supportive investments. [00:11:22] Jeff Wood: Yeah. I think the investments are important. It’s just a lot of times I feel like in Phoenix, for example, like they built the street from sidewalk to sidewalk. Redone the whole thing. And then, the line costs a hundred million a mile. And then everybody’s complaining, why did this line cost a hundred million a mile? [00:11:34] You rebuilt the street from sidewalk to sidewalk. And so there’s a lot of other things besides the transit project that got lumped into that cost. And so I always think that discussion is just really interesting, especially when it comes to for and against arguments, when you’re trying to think of like new lines and stuff like that off of what you’ve done before. [00:11:49] I want to go back in time a little bit and ask about the process for the region to get to the point where they were building a BRT network. Because I think that’s an important story too, is Indianapolis coming to the decision that. Okay. We need to think about expanding our transit network. [00:12:02] We need to think about what might help people access their destinations. So how did this whole kind of idea of a BRT system as part of the larger transit network come into play? [00:12:11] Austin Gibble: Yeah. Great question. So going even further back in time Indianapolis was very late. To the game when it came to municipalizing transit systems. [00:12:20] So what we now know as Indigo Indianapolis transit system was the name prior to its acquisition. It was also known as Indianapolis street railways in 1975. That was purchased by the city County and then brought under public ownership over time through the 1980s, nineties, 20 aughts. There were reductions in operating support at all levels of government, and that resulted in some pretty substantial service cuts after the last round in the mid 20 aughts, a central Indiana transit task force was formed, and this. [00:12:53] Group studied where potential rapid transit lines could go and what a potential regional transit network could look like this eventually morphed into something called Indy Connect, which was a regional plan for rapid transit and local bus improvements. Indiana, there’s a lot of quirks about our governance. [00:13:11] Marion County did have to go to the state legislature to ask for permission to hold a referendum that took three tries, but we were given. Referendum approval in 2014, it did come with some stipulations, the primary ones being no rail based transit, but quite honestly, when it came to picking our battles, that one didn’t really matter. [00:13:29] There was only one line that might have been rail and it required suburban sport that it just didn’t have at the moment. So at the time, not really a big issue. And then there was the other requirement that 10 percent of capital funds must come from sources other than tax revenue. So there were a couple of requirements there. [00:13:47] But at the time we thought that these were, I say, we, but at the time it was believed that these were the Royal. We are at the time these were considered as acceptable compromises. And so after that, the referendum was held in 2016 for an up to 0. 25 percent income tax to be dedicated to public transportation operations and capital projects that passed handily at the ballot box at just shy of 60 percent approval. [00:14:11] And then that was. Approved by the city county council, fully ratified. And then after that planning and staffing began in earnest to develop the system. [00:14:20] Jeff Wood: The legislature is an interesting creature especially from what I’ve seen from afar. So the first thing I’m interested in is this 10 percent of revenue must come from other sources. [00:14:29] What does that entail and what does that specifically mean when it comes to where revenue comes from and how it’s sourced and allocated? [00:14:35] Austin Gibble: Yeah. And it’s been very interesting. So Indigo actually set up a separate arm that is a 501 C three. Known as the Indianapolis public transportation foundation. And that organization works with corporate partners, nonprofits, and other various non governmental organizations to gather donations, give out free transit passes, gather funds for certain projects or plans or other efforts. [00:15:00] And then the other sources of non tax revenue are grants. So it’s been very interesting as far as I’m aware, this is the only transit agency. that has a specific nonprofit arm dedicated to meeting certain requirements of legislation or dedicated to improving access to public transportation and is directly tied to the agency itself. [00:15:24] Jeff Wood: So the red line gets built. What’s the lessons that you take away from that initial line and how it was constructed and also what the kind of reactions been to it? [00:15:32] Austin Gibble: Yeah. The red line. Starting any BRT line is a challenge for an agency that has typically contracted for the vast majority of its existence. [00:15:42] Expansion is very difficult. That can be very challenging and managing a large capital project like bus rapid transit, especially like the red line, which is 60 percent and center running. Dedicated busway, transit signal priority, off board fare collection, doors on both sides, center platforms. This is a big project and for an agency that didn’t really have a whole lot of experience, I think that IndyGo did very well. [00:16:07] There were some, teething issues and things stumbling out the gate. The fare system didn’t work quite right when things were first starting. There were some early challenges with the signal management system. There, there is a short segment. Of the red line that operates in bidirectional lanes. [00:16:21] There’s a lane management system to that, and this isn’t necessarily specific to the red line, but turning on all of these new technologies or implementing all of these new technologies as an agency for the first time is very challenging. And I do want to say that’s something that stand tech can help with for our agencies. [00:16:41] We, we have a lot of learned lessons in that. And honestly, I think one of my big takeaways is that technology is not a panacea. I think there are technologies that when they are dumb, that is when they are best. A rub rail on a BRT station is never going to need a software update. It is a passive system that works incredibly well. [00:17:02] And so originally that was not included in the first design and that was upgraded later on, but there are certain aspects in which technology can make things more cumbersome if you’re not careful and if you don’t manage it properly. That was probably my biggest lesson learned from that. [00:17:19] Jeff Wood: Purple line. [00:17:20] Yeah. So the red line’s finished and then you have to go through the next one. What were some of the issues that came up with designing and planning that part of the system? Sure. Indigo [00:17:28] Austin Gibble: learned a lot from red line and applied those design changes to purple line. Certain reinforcements to bus pads for electric buses, because those are heavier and it’s really created very unique lane configurations that use what Indigo called a left hand And in this unique configuration, it actually enables the benefits of the access of a bus and turn lane and the benefits of a dedicated bus lane, but without the downsides of a right hand bus and turn lane in which a bus may have to be slowed down or delayed by a motorist in front of them making a right hand turn in that same lane. [00:18:04] And thus far, early numbers, these are not official, this has been numbers run by my transit friends, either professionally or advocacy wise, the purple line is pretty close to average speeds of the gene line in Los Angeles. So Indigo has implemented an on street BRT that has close to the performance of a dedicated busway. [00:18:25] And it’s been very impressive. What’s the ridership like? [00:18:28] Jeff Wood: I know. So I should ask the caveat, right? Because of the pandemic, because it did mess with everybody. So I’ll ask that with that caveat, but what’s the ridership been like? Great question. Purple line, obviously too [00:18:37] Austin Gibble: soon to tell. It’s only been a week. [00:18:38] Yeah. Red line opened right before the pandemic. And so we had about six months of really strong ridership. 10 minute headways and the pandemic had to cut it back to 15. That is not uncommon among transit agencies throughout the country. However, since then there has been steadily increasing ridership and Indigo has been setting records with the red line in terms of ridership month after month of. [00:19:01] Pretty consistently, I believe at this point, there are over 105, 000 rides per month on the red line alone inputs. Interesting. Is that with the purple line and the red line interline on Meridian Street, which is our busiest transit corridor, it does do some pressure relief on passenger demand that the red line had been experiencing, but also it doubles up the usage of that infrastructure. [00:19:24] And so I anticipate those numbers to increase quite substantially as Indigo continues to build out its business. BRT lines. And as the city of Indianapolis continues to develop around these BRT lines with it’s very impressive DOD policy. [00:19:38] Jeff Wood: I’m interested also in how it interfaces with the regular bus system, the system that is not in dedicated lanes, that doesn’t have all the kind of the extra bells and whistles that system obviously covers most of the region. [00:19:48] And I’m curious, like how those two kind of interface together and how it’s been designed to make sure that those have the connections that they need for folks that are using the system to access destinations. [00:19:58] Austin Gibble: Sure. So one thing that Indigo did when it opened the red line was implement a new fare payment system called my key that does come with fair capping, which is very popular. [00:20:08] Indigo was an early adopter of fair capping in the US. This was back in 2019 over time. The bus network is gradually being reorganized as new BRT lines open to become more of a structured network and feed into these rapid transit corridors. [00:20:23] Jeff Wood: Yeah. And you’re talking about the busted network redesign that might’ve happened. [00:20:26] Is that still something that’s on the table or is it, [00:20:29] Austin Gibble: yeah, it has changed a little bit as fiscal realities from COVID has certainly impacted agencies. However, Indigo is still gradually implementing a frequent grid based network through 2027. [00:20:41] Jeff Wood: So I want to go back also to the legislature. You have the red line, the purple line, and then the blue line, which is the next part of the system. [00:20:49] But folks in the legislature have been pushing back on that. It feels like for the last, maybe what, three years, it’s had to been saved to a certain extent from being dismantled in terms of like taking away dedicated lanes and stuff like that. I’m wondering what that kind of interaction with the legislature has done for planning the system, for the discussions between. [00:21:07] The city and the state, can you go through also what’s been happening? Because it’s just an interesting story. I think from the outside. [00:21:13] Austin Gibble: Sure. And I’m glad you brought that up. That was the topic of my panel session yesterday, which was addressing legislative challenges when it comes to transit, and it’s not something that’s unique to Indiana transit agencies across the country are facing some headwinds when it comes to legislative priorities and competing priorities in some places, maybe it is some degree of legislative hostility. [00:21:36] Maybe in other places, it’s just not a priority. And so it falls by the wayside and that dynamic in Indiana certainly forced planners to work within more constrained contexts, but also to consider planning for the future and creating a message around transit of its benefits. And really it goes back to how the transit referendum. [00:22:02] Was passed to begin with in that a lot of the advocacy was done through the city’s chamber of commerce, and they host an umbrella organization called transit drives Indy. And that is a larger coalition of neighborhood organizations, CDCs, houses of worship, nonprofits, and corporations. Who really threw their weight behind transit and created resources for those on the ground, merchants associations, neighborhood groups to get the message out about transit and have a consistent and reliable message about transit that could be deployed either by advocacy groups or through education. [00:22:43] There were ways to tailor it to certain organizations or to the niche concerns. that each group may have because it does come down to meeting people where they are and addressing their specific concerns. I will also say that Indigo did a great job of reaching out to the community, both through the development of the project and through the construction period. [00:23:03] What they did was actually rent physical brick and mortar commercial space in the neighborhoods along the BRT corridors and had open office hours where anyone could come in at any time. Ask questions, have their concerns addressed. And that really built a good faith relationship with the city, not just at the official governmental level, but also it built that social capital with the neighborhoods. [00:23:26] Jeff Wood: Yeah. I’m wondering how much did you learn about the power of the advocacy locally and the power of the folks who basically willed this thing forward? [00:23:34] Austin Gibble: Yeah, absolutely power of advocacy, my goodness. And I will say Indianapolis is it’s certainly not the biggest city in the country, but boy, do the people who live there have a lot of heart. [00:23:45] They are passionate and if they want something, they will go get it. So Transit Drives Indy really was an organization that pushed out that message to advocates. And I think having a message that was consistent and something that everyone could beat the drum to was really what took this to the next level. [00:24:05] And we see this with advocacy groups across urbanist issues. In Indianapolis, I’m also on the advisory committee for the rethink 6570 coalition, which is currently doing work to plan a cap over a portion of recessed highway through downtown. We were one of three organizations to receive the full funding agreement. [00:24:25] From USDOT. Another example of some of our advocacy work is our cultural trail. A lot of your listeners probably already know what that is, but for those who don’t, it is a semi Dutch style downtown cycling network that Indianapolis has that connects to other protected bike lanes and trails that then radiate out into the other neighborhoods. [00:24:45] That has been built almost entirely through donations and federal grant dollars. The city of Indianapolis has not had to put a ton of money towards it for capital, but we have an amazing asset just by. People putting up their own money and saying, this is wonderful. We want this, we want more of it. Let’s make it happen. [00:25:07] Jeff Wood: Can you explain that a little bit more for folks that might not be familiar because it is pretty impressive. And the scope you say Dutch style, but I think from us standards, this is like far and beyond what other cities have been doing. [00:25:17] Austin Gibble: Yeah. So throughout the majority of its alignment, it is a separated, there is a bike section that is made with red pavers. [00:25:24] And then there is a landscaping median, both. Between the trail and the street, and then the trail and the sidewalk, and then the other side is the pedestrian sidewalk area. And along its entire length, there is programming and arts and lighting and just good design. And the city has also been making a concerted effort to really orient development. [00:25:47] Towards the cultural trail and using the cultural trail as an anchor for economic development and for just generally improving the public realm. [00:25:55] Jeff Wood: Yeah, it’s pretty impressive. I would invite folks to look up both the bus harbor transit line, but also the cultural trail, just like Google it or something and see what it looks like, because it is really impressive what’s been done down there and the design and everything. [00:26:08] Austin Gibble: And the cultural trail just opened the most recent extension of that a few months ago. on indiana avenue and the second extension will open at the end of this month [00:26:19] Jeff Wood: so going back to the brt line i’m curious what do you hope for the blue line you know going forward as a resident [00:26:25] Austin Gibble: of indianapolis i am always an advocate for indigo and for the blue line for those who may not know We’ll be the primary east west corridor as part of our bus rapid transit network going from a small suburb called Cumberland on the far east side of the city to the Indianapolis International Airport via downtown. [00:26:43] It is a 24 mile long line. It’s very long, especially for a bus route. But I think this is one that. Everyone’s very excited about Indianapolis has a very large convention industry. So this does have the potential to serve as a true rapid transit connection between the Indianapolis international airport and downtown Indy. [00:27:02] And then the near East side neighborhoods are places where investment has been needed for a very long time. And there are indications that the blue line will have a very high chance. TOD development potential. And this has the capability to make some very positive transformations along what was historically a streetcar commercial [00:27:22] Jeff Wood: corridor. [00:27:23] So you worked on those projects. What’s something that you learned that you think other folks around the country should know before embarking on doing their own BRT projects? [00:27:32] Austin Gibble: Absolutely. So community buy in and engagement is crucial at the outset. I’m really personally blown away by these agencies that are releasing transit plans and then hosting referendums within six months. [00:27:45] The Central Indiana Transit Task Force released its plan in 2009 and we didn’t have a referendum until 2016. We had six years of outward engagement and constant feedback from the communities. There were hundreds and hundreds of public meetings to develop a transit plan that residents And the people believed would work for them. [00:28:04] Is everyone happy? No, never. You’re never going to make everyone happy. Quite honestly, I think if someone isn’t a little PO, you probably haven’t done a good job. Transit should be going into the places that are most active. Is it a little bit disruptive? Yes. But is it effective? [00:28:19] Jeff Wood: Absolutely. Although it is tough when you have a certain legislator. [00:28:22] I’m going to say this myself. Yes. It’s a little tough When you have a certain legislator who is one of those individuals who is not into it, but certainly, but you [00:28:28] Austin Gibble: know, it was that community buy in and that community support that really took the project across the finish line without that community support. [00:28:37] I don’t know if the project would have survived. And this is especially true. And I think that it’s certainly not a revolutionary idea that you need to go out into neighborhoods that have been historically marginalized and talk to them and meet them where they are. That in itself is very challenging getting the word out. [00:28:53] Is hard, especially in these environments in which people may not be as connected to social media, or maybe they’re not consuming traditional media like TV or radio in which they might hear announcements for these kinds of meetings. And so we did go out, there were door knocking efforts. There were mailers. [00:29:12] We. Organized multiple meetings through different hours of the day, and we really put a huge emphasis on partnering with organizations that had ties to unofficial leadership within the community. Who are the individuals that the neighborhoods. Seize an elder and trust. And those are important people to identify and get their buy in because people listen to them. [00:29:37] And for the case of the Purple Line specifically, which I was most close to, that included the Community Alliance for the Far East Side, otherwise known as CAFE. It included multiple houses of worship. Pastors, other community based organizations, we use those informal networks to identify individuals who have influence within the neighborhood and who know the little ins and outs of neighborhood issues that maybe as, you know, me, a relatively, middle class white guy who doesn’t spend a lot of time in these neighborhoods, I need to understand. [00:30:13] What their lived experiences and how we can take that lived experience and apply that to our design, apply that to our general philosophy of transit planning and ensure that the final deliverable is something that is truly meaningful to the neighborhood. [00:30:31] Jeff Wood: Do you have an example of that? Something that popped up during the process where you were like, Oh, I had no idea that this was a thing and we need to do something about it. [00:30:38] Yeah. [00:30:39] Austin Gibble: So that, that’s a great question. Interestingly. We got a lot of comments about persons traveling across 38th street instead of over it. And so we took that feedback and look at our design and said how can we retain access through the corridor as much as possible, but keep the high quality Design and performance of center running bus rapid transit and through that design, we were actually able to develop some unique cross section configurations that did enable left turns without impeding or endangering the flow of the bus or introducing too many new. [00:31:22] Potential conflicts of interest and so far that appears to be working quite well. Not everyone was thrilled. It didn’t retain the access entirely, but the final design did make a concerted effort to really maintain as much. Across 38th Street access as possible, and that really built a good faith relationship with the community and then help bring things forward. [00:31:46] And then, of course, also just being able to sit down 1 on 1 talk to everyone. And, it really sometimes came down to, I think, 1 of the other specific examples I can think of is someone who’s very upset. Said, this looks like it’s going to block my driveway. What’s going to happen? I won’t be able to get in and out of my home. [00:32:03] And I was like, okay let’s take a look. Let’s see what happens. And it just, it was me sitting down with this one individual going through the plan sheets and saying, okay here’s your driveway. Looks like it’ll change a little bit here and here. And how long will my driveway be closed? [00:32:18] Maybe a day or two, but we can, work out such and such. So it’s not closed on a particular day. Or we can do it within a particular timeframe where maybe getting it out of your driveway isn’t as imperative, but minimizing that disruption and just saying, Hey yeah, absolutely. Like we care about your concerns and we can help you come talk to me or I can come talk to you. [00:32:41] Again, meeting people where they are. Don’t always expect them to come to you. Yeah. And it’s those little things. It’s that interpersonal relationship and relationship building. Yeah. That can make or break a project. [00:32:54] Jeff Wood: What’s interesting to you right now, outside of all your planning bus, rapid transit stuff, what’s interesting out there that you’re watching or paying attention to [00:33:02] Austin Gibble: what isn’t interesting. [00:33:03] I think that’s a better question. I am a little bit all over the place. Honestly, we’ve talked a lot about Indianapolis and bus rapid transit, if you don’t mind, I do want to turn. To my work at Santec. Yeah, of course. I do still have a heavy emphasis on bus rapid transit. However, I also am on several corridor ID projects. [00:33:21] So I’ve been getting more involved in intercity rail. I was on the federal railroad administration’s long distance passenger rail steering committee for the Midwest. There’s also a lot going on when it comes to micro mobility and micro transit. Integration of multiple services and then there’s obviously the electric bus discussion and stand tech actually has a specific zero emissions vehicle arm where we do that kind of analysis to determine is this an appropriate application of battery electric or zero emissions vehicles. [00:33:51] But at the moment, the conversation around. Microtransit and intercity passenger rail and how we can leverage these things to create comprehensive networks and develop our core cities in a new way, I think is what really has me fascinated. [00:34:08] Jeff Wood: What is it about it specifically? Like the most interesting about that specific topic and why intercity rail? [00:34:14] Austin Gibble: Sure. Yeah. Great question. Mostly because we’ve never had this kind of investment in intercity rail before. This is new. Santec is actually working on. Project in which transit oriented development and mobility hubs around intercity rail is a focal point leveraging intercity rail stations as your core mobility hub. [00:34:33] And that doesn’t sound all that revolutionary at least in a global context, right? That for the most part, yeah, sure. Your main train station is going to be your mobility hub, but we’re starting to see the conversation shift on trains from more about. Does the ridership justify it? Should we even subsidize this service too? [00:34:54] How can we leverage intercity rail to really bring our station areas, our core cities to the next level? And how can we leverage that for economic development? And so I will go back to Indiana for a bit because I was involved in the Chicago Indianapolis Louisville CID application, but Indianapolis has its convention center, major stadia right outside of the train station. [00:35:17] We have a massive convention industry, millions of visitors. And so the conversation is, Hey we have a train station smack in the middle of it, but it doesn’t get that much service. It’s good. Let’s get more service. It’s more people in here. Let’s really, let’s keep this going. Let’s keep the momentum going. [00:35:34] I think that’s very interesting, especially when it comes to those mobility hubs, that kind of integration and that level of detail. Is a little bit new historically intercity passenger rail has somewhat been planned in a silo. [00:35:47] Jeff Wood: It is interesting. And for me, it’s from the standpoint of, folks are asking if we do build these inner city rail connections, like what do you do when you get off the train? [00:35:56] And I often tell people, it’s just like an airport, right? When you get off in an airport, You either rent a car or you take a bus or a train or whatever other mode. And in the urban context in the city that just transfers over to, the micromobility options that you might have in the center city, but also from your economic development discussion point, I think specifically there is an opportunity to connect a lot of places that maybe weren’t connected before because you’re not flying over them or you’re not driving through them. [00:36:22] And I think that’s really important, especially in the context of all of the bills that have been passed recently. The chips bill, the inflation reduction act. The IJ, the infrastructure bill, obviously all the money that’s left over from all of the rescue bills and money that existed from the pandemic, all of that money is going into these investments that are being made in places like Indiana and in the Northeast that could be connected, all the investments and all of the knowledge, worker creation and all of the manufacturing jobs could all be connected by this network of inner city rail that connects all these sectors together in a way that. [00:36:54] And faster than, I think that the airplanes or the cars can do because it’s a faster trip and you don’t need to bring your car with you when you go to these places, it’s a knowledge transfer kind of opportunity. And so there’s this huge opportunity to take all of those resources that have been enabled through Congress and put that into a connective tissue that. [00:37:13] Brings everybody up in the region, not just like the Indianapolis is or the Pittsburgh or whoever else. It’s like all the places in between where the train can stop. Exactly. Exactly. [00:37:22] Austin Gibble: And rural access is something that I am increasingly passionate about, growing up in a rural area and in a lot of places throughout the United States, healthcare access, opportunity access in rural America. [00:37:37] Increasingly challenging, urbanization is the rule. It’s just generally how economies work, but I think there’s definitely something to be said for intercity rail as it benefits rural communities and connecting rural communities to urban economies and the opportunities and resources that they provide. [00:37:57] Yeah, it’s huge. Where can folks find out more about what you do? Absolutely. You can find me on LinkedIn just Austin Gibble. And you can find me on X formerly Twitter at Indy underscore Austin. That’s I N D Y underscore A U S T I N. Awesome.Jeff Wood: Austin, thanks for joining us. We really appreciate your time.
[00:38:14] Austin Gibble: Thank you for having me. This was a pleasure. It was great to have you. Thank you.
